The Bharat Jodo Yatra (BJY) marks a new beginning in the contemporary history of the Indian National Congress (INC), says KC Venugopal the party’s General Secretary (in charge of Organisational Matters). He said this in an interview with Venkitesh Ramakrishnan, The Managing Editor of The AIDEM as the BJY reached the national capital of New Delhi and was preparing for the onward journey to Srinagar in Jammu and Kashmir in the first week of January 2023. The following is the English translation of the  interview conducted in Malayalam.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

Welcome to The AIDEM Interactions.

The Bharat Jodo Yatra is certainly perceived as a remarkable initiative in contemporary Indian politics both by political observers and activists.

Today in The AIDEM interactions, we have K C Venugopal who is one of the chief organizers of the Bharat Jodo Yatra led by Rahul Gandhi, former national President of the INC. He has an important role in the Yatra as the General Secretary in charge of organisational affairs in the party.

Question: Venugopal, 107 days 2800 km, you have been in this prolonged Yatra with Rahul Gandhi and now it has reached the capital city. How would you sum up this 107 day’s Yatra experience, in terms of its progress and impact?

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

This Yatra is an unforgettable experience for us. When we were planning it, we never expected this Yatra to have this much impact or popularity and we took it as a challenge. None has carried out a Yatra (on foot) from Kanyakumari to Kashmir, so we knew the challenges, but still we decided and started. But today at this point we can say it has had a great reaction and that people have accepted it and taken it to their heart going beyond divisions of caste, religion, political or region. Indeed, this is a great achievement.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

Of course. we are noticing the responses of the people, even from unexpected quarters. Also, from a demographical point of view the positive response has been from people of all categories and age. But can \you tell me which category was more attracted o this Yatra as compared to other sections?

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

Youth. To be frank, Congress was lately concerned about the diminishing presence and participation of youths. But the Yatra has taken away these apprehensions. For example, even in places like Madhya Pradesh, 80% of people participating in the Yatra was below 30 years. Women were also participating in huge numbers. Indeed, it is normal for people to come and witness a Yatra in a casual manner, driven by a sense of curiosity, but this time it is not like that. There is tremendous sense of involvement from all sections of the population.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

But there is also the view among many political observers based in Delhi, that despite the BJY being an important programme for the Congress and in a long time, there is also dichotomy, or a contradiction, inherent in the way it has advanced. On the one side, it has helped the Congress develop some sort of a national narrative for the first time after 2013 and in the process the party and Rahul Gandhi have been able to develop some specific binaries like, the huge burden unemployment one side as opposed to economic policies that help multinational corporations and crony capitalists. The Yatra has also brought up a contradiction between the values represented by Mahatma Gandhi and Savarkar, as also the contradictions between religious fanaticism and secularism. But, in spite of all this, there is the big question whether the Yatra will result in a concrete electoral outcome for the Congress ….

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

The transformation of this response into Electoral outcomes is something thar we should wait and watch for, but the positive factor is that, through this Yatra we were able to consolidate a host of communities, which had left the party in the recent past and bring them back to the Congress. More importantly, the Yatra has had an electrifying impact on our workers, the rank and file, who were disappointed with the election results in recent times.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

Yes, it is a fact that the Congress has consistently garnered a minimum of 20% vote share on an average in all national elections. But looking back to the period from the beginning of the 1990s we can see also that many from your core support base such as the OBC communities have left the party despite your victories in the national elections of 2004 and 2009…

K C. VENUGOPAL:

This Yatra is turning out be a big step in retrieving some of the eroded categories. Certainly not all, but some important communities….

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHANAN:

KC, I have observed that even you said in a recent byte that your vote share will be significantly increasing but, you have not mentioned about the seat share….

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

Talking about seat share, it will not be based only on this Yatra but also on its follow up. We are planning to conduct another campaign soon, ‘Haat Se Haat Jodo’ (join hands across the country). This will be yet another grassroots campaign, approaching every house in India. Many other follow up programmes have been planned but they are in the process of being finalised. So, if we continue with these campaigns, there will definitely be a change in terms of seats.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

Does Congress have what it takes organisationally to carry out such continuous campaigns? To conduct this Yatra, the Congress did amass huge resources and enhanced itself organizationally but the doubt remains whether the Congress can continue campaigns in a regular, systematic manner?

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

We have a great leader like Rahul Gandhi, who has made a lot of sacrifice, it is not simple to cover so many kilometres waking up at 5 o clock day after day. It has awakened our workers and leaders. It was indeed a challenge to wake up and start the Yatra at 5 o clock in the morning, but still so many people took part in huge numbers. This has not happened in the recent history of the Congress. See, we are not a cadre party but still we made it possible. It has strengthened our level of confidence. In places like Assam, where we never had done a padayatra the party leadership and workers have covered 850 kilometres. Jharkhand and West Bengal have also planned on their own padayatras.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

But in Uttar Pradesh a small geographical territory covered by the Yatra ….

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

We have specific plans regarding Uttar Pradesh. For covering the entire state like you said even 100 days will not be enough. We are facing criticism for not including Uttar Pradesh in a big way in the Yatra but actually we could not have conceived such an all-encompassing route. So, a route had to be fixed keeping practical considerations in mind. That is what you are witnessing now.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

There is also another dichotomy. Throughout this Yatra Rahul Gandhi has portrayed or projected himself as somebody not interested in power. He even went to the extent of saying that ‘power is poison’. But as leaders and workers of the party you are all aiming at power. But at the same time Rahul Gandhi makes such grandiose views harping on sacrifice. But, should not all politicians target power ….

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

Now, there is no relevant environment for this question. The simple fact is that he is not a leader who is craving for position or power. In contemporary politics, a majority of people aim for a political power and I am not saying that is a bad thing but Rahul Gandhi himself has a certain perspective, that does not mean he is into asceticism. I know for a fact that he is interested in promoting new faces to come to power. Finally, such matters are decided by party. The new Congress president (Mallikarjuna Kharge) has stated publicly that the next general elections would be fought under the leadership of Rahul Gandhi. This was stated in the presence of Rahul Gandhi. So, be rest assured Rahul Gandhi is not going to take political sanyas. There is little doubt that the country needs a regime change. If the current Modi led regime is allowed to continue the whole country will be destroyed. That is the clear vision that the Congress party has.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

In Maharashtra, the former ruling coalition the Maharashtra Vikas Aghadi came as joint entity to support the Yatra but in places like Telangana, Rahul Gandhi was seen criticizing the Telangana the Rashtra Samithi and its Chief Minister K Chandrasekhar Rao. You have also invited Samajwadi Party Leader Akhilesh Yadav and Jayant Chaudhary leader of Rastriya Lok Dal to join the Yatra in Uttar Pradesh. So there seems to be a kind of partisan and selective choices in your approach in bringing e opposition leaders together….

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

It is not selective and it is meaningless to call it selective. The other day Rahul Gandhi himself have sent invitation letters to all opposition MPs including those from Trinamool Congress, BSP, SP, TRS and even Aam Aadmi party. So, the motive is to bring together everyone who agrees fight against the BJP on the basis of principles. The message we are trying to give is to take away the hatred in politics and to fight against the ruling government. In Telangana, the context of Rahulji’s speech should be understood, he was opposing Chandra Shekhar Rao of TRS for his support to the BJP, including in the case of the three controversial farm bills. We are dutybound to expose this. But beyond all this our aim to bring together the parties that stand against the current regime.

VENKITESH RAMASKRISHNAN:

So, basically the Bharat Jodo Yatra is focusing on an ideological thrust ….

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

Yes. we have to wait and see what effect it will have, as we have said before the Bharat Jodo Yatra is not designed for electoral gains but for raising our country’s major problems like unemployment among youth, economic distress. sectarian politics and so on. During this Yatra Rahul Gandhi is constantly interacting with common people, especially the youth. Rahul Gandhi is not only walking but also calling out to hundreds of people and talking and listening to their problems. It is after these widespread interactions you see the concluding speech at a venue. The other day in Delhi, during the Yatra, one youth came running and said that, I am mentally disturbed, and when he was asked the reason for it, he said “I don’t have any job, I am not able to live and I cannot find stability of mind. “We called and arranged a doctor for him. I am relating just one case, but there are so many other significant interactions with common people that came up during the Yatra. We are getting very important inputs on the problems that this country is facing let it be Unemployment, rising prices, divisive politics or the communal atmosphere.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

But the domestic problems inside Congress are not yet sorted. Even the Bharat Jodo Yatra is of no help here. For example, look at the Rajasthan situation ….

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

As a democratic movement that imbibes different sections, the Congress will definitely witness difference of opinion but that is nothing new for the party. In fact, it is natural in a democratic party. But the enthusiasm that the Yatra has inspired is unmistakable. I saw during the Yatra that every leader, even an 85-year-old Sushil Kumar Shinde walked for 3 hours even though he was not well. Shivar Patil is close to 90 years old too did the same. Every leader from top to bottom have participated keeping aside the differences they have. In other words, what we saw was a collective of people working together for a common cause following a leader. But at the same time, I also feel a sort of distress that some other people, who were giving us advice and telling us privately that this nation needs to be changed with a movement like the Yatra but were not brave enough to participate in this Yatra. Even in Kerala there were some people who said they would like to participate but did not. You understand what I am telling, right?”.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

But there was also the phenomenon of many well-known figures such as Raghuram Rajan, Kamal Haasan and T.M. Krishna crossing all social, political and cultural factors and joining the Yatra. When Raghuram Rajan came, the BJP’s reaction against him was that he was having dreams of becoming the Manmohan Singh of Rahul Gandhi …

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

This is the what the BJP is all about. They cannot see the positive side of anything. They believe in the politics of terrorising and blackmailing. Raghuram Rajan is a person who reacts on issues. But instead of going into the merit of his arguments they criticize the man. However, Raghuram Rajan has the capability to handle such criticism. But what I found in Kerala was that there were many who did not know how to withstand criticism as Raghuram Rajan could do. I never expected such people to be there in Kerala, which as a State is strong and resolute in its fight against communalism.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

The Congress witnessed a democratic election for the post of party President even as the Yatra was shaping up, and Shashi Tharoor was a significant personality who made such a democratic exercise meaningful. But after the elections, what we see is a repetition of the age-old coterie culture in Congress. Tharoor has been side-lined to such an extent …

K.C. VENUGOPAL:

Venkitesh, you are significant journalist who has played bold and brave role in mainstream media in India, and in this era, it is difficult to find such journalists. But while asking this question, you too seem to have been taken in by the present convoluted narration in the media, which is focusing on how to weaken the Congress. When I came into politics as a student what I learned was, the duty of fourth estate was to strengthen the opposition and to expose the weakness of the ruling party and its government. It is for helping the people. But as we all know the contemporary national media takes up no discussions questioning the governments’ weakness or the real concerns of the people. With regard to the question you asked, let me clarify that once the Congress President election takes place, the current national level body is continued without any change, unless the new President formally initiates the process to select a high-level committee. That will happen in February last week at a special plenary session to be held in Raipur (in Chhattisgarh). It is at the plenary that a new working committee will be formed and after that a new team will come. Then only we will be able to decide who all will be incorporated in the top bodies. Let me assure you, nobody is excluded from this exercise at the plenary. Congress is not a party like that, nobody will be punished or politically beheaded for sharing their opinion or participating in the election. As you know, there are many other parties like that.

VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN:

Thank you very much KC for this interaction. We will continue to have our dialogue in the future too on many issues.

K.C. VENUGOPAL: Thank you and all the best.

Excerpts of the Interview Translated and Transcribed by Alida Shahid. Watch full interview in Malayalam, here.